i need help selecting which spings rates and shocks and cross % to run on the car and any other tips on setup are much needed. This setup was prepared by Old School Racing Motorsports. He feels that there is one race that , Wight only needed to finish fifteenth or better to beat out his teammate Billy Decker for the championship. 6. We are at a crossroads at this point in time with setup technology in asphalt racing. This develops more crossweight as the car squats on acceleration. Aero Package Long gone are the days of saying that the MC is not important. All ads are provided by Google and are safe. Street stock, pure stock, sportsman, factory stock. SUCH AS SPRINGS, SHOCKS, SWAYBARS ETC. For instance, you must run stock type cast iron intakes, and cast iron exhaust manifolds. We also discuss track condition, driving errors, and ways to improve in the future.Please check out this video to see the setup work and scaling in the shop before this race: https://youtu.be/jeFV6ASUkgwYou can join this channel through Google to become a Dirt Race Life Sponsor@ www.youtube.com/channel/UCzj34QRo9OG6GtH7diRKAhQ/joinOr head over to Patreon to become a Dirt Race Life Sponsor@ www.patreon.com/dirtracelifeFind us on FaceBook @ www.facebook.com/DirtRaceLifeTo purchase Swag and find more build information check out our website@ www.dirtracelife.com We have continually pressed these issues because of the extreme importance they have. We had to pound out the stock studs and drill the holes out bigger to accept the larger diameter studs. 79 Camaro street stock. Cars that don't turn well are very likely to have poor MC designs. Visible Anyone can find this group. Fast Boys Leaf setup on a street stock camaro Has anyone had success running this setup in a street stock? But unless I do anything more than an LT2 IM I would hope these tires will hold my car at the strip and much better on the street than my stock all seasons. At some point, we take in enough information to allow us to avoid the mistakes of the past and get ahead of the curve in setting up our asphalt cars. Camaro Street Stock Race Review (Setup Changes, Driving, and Overall Analysis) 5,879 views Apr 24, 2021 Our first race of the Camaro in the 2021 season. No matter which stiffness you decide to go with, the most important aspect of setup is balance, and you achieve that balance with the correct combination of springs, moment centers, sway bars, and load distribution. We got away from running thatmuch cross as the car was pushy. 4. The track was a 5/8 mile asphalt and was extremely fast. Sorry for the. I got the height I wanted from the spindle not the ball joints and the long ball joints bend to easy . to hook up instantly getting off! (Victory loves preparation). The Super Stock springs LF 900LB. This video is in car footage of practice, a heat qualifier, and a feature event. Note the new cross weight and the ride heights. I grew up in paved oval racing. "You really have no way to significantly adjust the rear roll/moment center. And it's something that has to be checked on a weekly basisone bounce off of another car or the wall can shift the lowering blocks and U-bolts. What might one of our chassis do for you? Mini-Sprint (winged and non-winged) shock setup recommendations Micro shock setup recommendations Late Mode Dirt Car Shock Setup Recommendations Choosing the proper drag racing shock lengths AFCO Shock Dimensions by Series AFCO Open Wheel Tech11 Mini-Sprint (winged and non-winged) shock setup recommendations Micro shock setup recommendations You must log in or register to reply here. (Uncheck the box beside Attach left side and use the arrows beside Left bar end clearance to zero the preload). Ackermann is easily checked by using a laser system or strings. Car went anywhere he wanted and was quick time, won the trophy dash, heat . FIVESTAR MD3 Street Stock Camaro FENDERS for 2022, LEFT OR RIGHT SIDE.-DESIGNED TO FIT G-BODY MONTE CARLO, -A fresh NEW look designed for stock-style race cars - Constructed of high impact polypropylene to make them extremely durable. We ran the car with a lot softer set up than that. ", Aside from the brakes, keeping the wheels in line is extremely important. You must try to determine if your setup is balanced and then if not, make the necessary changes to bring it into a balanced state. Once you've made the entry to the corner balanced, check to see if the adjuster is centered. Sportsman Nose Support $ 39.50 Add to Quote. All this while keeping cross from rt. John Chance is a former Super Late Model racer in Florida, who, after taking a few years away from the sport, jumped back into the. Due to the fact of the popularity of the leaf spring system, we felt racers may want to understand more about how the suspension actually works. The message I get from those who have worked this trend for a sufficient number of years is one of the following two types: 1) a continuing and constant search for balance in the car and a loss of success on the track, or 2) a returning to the more conventional setups because they have experienced number 1 above. Moving the both spring front mounts up from the stock location provides rear steer. ft. with quick transfer to the right rear. We always start with the front end geometry on any race car. Another way to gain bite that we have described in the past involves the use of a spring-loaded pull-bar that allows a certain amount of rear end rotation. Trends are a part of this learning curve and greatly influence some, but not all racers. they say very easy to drive capaired to a coil car. We do not want to try to solve turn entry problems with the brake bias, we only need to make sure the car stays neutral in handling when the brakes are applied. just turning rt.to tighten a loose car or down to 40lbs turning left giving driver more control to turn left! When autocomplete results are available use up and down arrows to review and enter to select . The very last thing you need to worry about is your aero package. "The biggest obstacle with these classes are the limited adjustment you have to stay within the rules," John explains. Save these setup files to C:\Documents\iRacing\setups\dirtstreetstock\. JEFFREYS Fabrication is coming soon!!! -CAMBER LF/.3-.5 POS CASTER. Smaller gains can come later on after the more important aspects of setup are resolved. Now we are proud to say Billy Moyer is a dealer of our chassis as well. The car may or may not be neutral in handling, but the handling will not be consistent. Cra bomber, turbo ,etc Private Only members can see who's in the group and what they post. Now, without changing the clutch load, press the throttle to the floor. Each suspension system desires to do its own thing when lateral forces are introduced from the car going through the turns. I can't tell you how many times I have refined the MC location in a car and had it totally change the way the car turned, for the better. 1. Special Discount Cost- $24.95 ! 3200 - 3400 Lb. You are welcome to use our help pages and download the setups provided, but we do ask that you disable any ad blockers you are using. Here is an explanation of balance related to the dynamics of the race car. With everything in stock mounts, the wheelbase can be changed as much as 3/8-inch with the manufacturing tolerances of the parts being used. I would contact pray about his stage 1 with his ported heads. . ", Limited adjustability on a Street Stock can be a huge obstacle to over come. Still, teams want the most they can get out of their cars and if all of the above nine items are in order, by all means, go ahead with aero tweaking. Numerous car builders have come to realize the truth in the above statements. I think a good quick steering box is also important in these carsoften the stock boxes are several turns lock to lock, which can make if difficult to run consistent lap times because your hands are all over the place in the car. We ran the car at Atwood, Tn, US.. Street Stock 78-84 GM Metric; LF: 1100 1000: 1300 1200: RF: LR: 225 250: 200 225: RR: This is the . Play the all new "DANNY SIMKINS - 11 STRAIGHT - trivia game." Did not get DQ'd but after the race the promoter told him that too many other cars were complaining and he would not be able to run the car in that class. Get it right or don't get it at all. Bite Off The Corners The number one reason a car will be tight and not want to turn is because the front end is not designed properly. ANYBODY KNOW OF ANY STREET STOCK RACING CHEATS/TIPS. If we arrange our control arm angles, from a side view, for antidive, then as the car dives the upper BJ would move to the rear and the bottom BJ would move to the front. Negative aspects might include excessive bumpsteer (more than 0.030 bump in or out in for each inch of travel is considered negative by most designers), excessive Ackermann (more than a 1/4 degree added steer in either front wheel in 10 degrees of steering input is considered excessive), and incorrect steering quickness. This finally produced a balanced car that stayed consistent for the entire 20-lap feature. the car must weigh 3000 lbs and we cant run weight jacks of any kind. It may not display this or other websites correctly. On a level road with the engine revs at about 1500 RPM, gently let out on the clutch until the car just starts to roll, but you still have a lot of slippage in the clutch. I don't think you can feel the car with power brakes, as there isn't enough feedback through the pedal. I have always believed in priorities because you can make gains faster when you solve the high priorities problems first. Pinterest. John picked up a super-clean late '70s Camaro, put his drivetrain combo in it, and went racing. A 100-200lb extra load on the left front! Set up for manual transmission. (total/right) 101 inch coil spring cars 3400/1530. Got protested and is now in limbo! Weights: 105 inch and longer coil spring cars 3200/1440. CSU 500 Holley two barrel carb. The driveshaft alignment is critical from the standpoint of mechanical efficiency. Set up for manual transmission. We run on a semi flat 1/2 mile asphalt track. Also the rear springs on that car Dave 24, are either Landrum 200-175 or Afco 194-166can't remember, Only if you are racing anywhere except Bonneville.lol Chad. Check your PM's. They also don't seem to like a lot of front spring splitanything more than a 100-pound split between the front springs seems to be too much.". there are a lot of knowledgeable guys there. If we have a top view difference in alignment between the transmission output shaft and the pinion shaft and they are parallel, then the angle to the driveshaft created by that misalignment might be sufficient to provide the needed angular differential needed for loading the U-joint bearings and reducing negative harmonics. $10,000.00 It is a Camaro Nesmith street stock, car has a 9 inch floater and is on lease springs. Download Setup USA Int. The less angle the better. I am selling a Camaro street stock race car roller. 4 chrome wheels for car with 1 beadlock and 6 grey wheels with 1 beadlock. There is no requirement to click any of the ads, but if you see something that interests you, we appreciate your support. This cam requires 3600+ RPM Converter, and loves 3.91 gearing. Sometimes "tricks" can be mistaken for attention to details. Home; About; Gallery; Contact; Do all to the Glory of God - 1st Cor 10:31 If this component on your car is not right, then the whole car will suffer, no matter what else you do. And, it must be economically applied. Performer air gap intake. Sometimes it takes some out-of-the-box thinking. Front End Geometry Seems to me the suspension binding becomes more of an issue as you lower the car/frame height, but I don't see a rule for that. As the front brakes are applied, the caliper grabs the rotor and the motion of the wheel/rotor tries to rotate the spindle. Lucas Oil Speedway iRacing Dirt Street Stock Setup by OSRacing.net, Volusia Speedway 221 iRacing Dirt Street Stock Setup by OSRacing.net, Lanier Nat. Remember that drag is an important aspect of aero design. After reading Bob's advanced chassis book, I came to the conclusion I was going to have to limit the front roll of the car. It is a mile flat paved oval. Its configuration determines how much of the torque coming off the engine is transferred to each wheel. On a three-link rear suspension you should have the front of your right-side control arm higher than the rear mount by 1/3 of the total amount it will travel in the turns. Fresh with only 3 nights on bearings, rings, heads (n . I had forgotten all about this thread. You refering to dirt track racing correct? Your hunt for the tech to get to the front of the pack is over.This is the video where we ran the car the next time after this scale work: https://youtu.be/oGKQaEFsceYYou can join this channel through Google to become a Dirt Race Life Sponsor@ www.youtube.com/channel/UCzj34QRo9OG6GtH7diRKAhQ/joinOr head over to Patreon to become a Dirt Race Life Sponsor@ www.patreon.com/dirtracelifeFind us on FaceBook @ www.facebook.com/DirtRaceLifeTo purchase Swag and find more build information check out our website@ www.dirtracelife.com Please Login or Register 01/18/23 at 3:49am, what front springs to start with and whats a good baseline for wieghts the minum is 3100 what do i need for leftside,rear,and cross. I tried it first with bigger sway bars, and that never made the car consistent for more than a few laps. It must show a consistent gain in performance and a logical ideology to the bulk of race teams. Our first race of the Camaro in the 2021 season. Has headers and exhaust pipe. Street Stock/Sportsman Camaro Valance Wear Strips $ 31.00 Add to Quote. And as for you Modified and Stocker class teams, don't even think about it. This car has fabricated steel firewall and floor. "I think it's all about attention to detail. 35 years of winning and glad to be of help! I ran a street stock/sportsman from 1995 to 2000 with a metric frame. I don't really encourage that method. The use of softer front springs, larger sway bars, and big spring split in the rear has swept across the country for more than five years now with mixed results. I never felt good about cheating but when everyone does you need an even playing field. Our setup manual is the most in-depth mod setup manual in the industry. ft. to lt. rear. Steering Geometry The overall general rule is that the angles between the driveshaft and both the pinion shaft and the transmission output shaft need to be equal and in opposite directions. A 5 on lt. ft. and a 3 on the rt. We have been softening those setups over the years, but never intended to go to coil bind or bump rubbers. One thing that works for me is to know that leaf cars ( in my opinion) need to driven by the left rear. Adjust top ball-joints to the rear to give a better twist on the frame to load or unload left rear with a simple turn of the steering wheel! You have your choice of either steel panels or aluminium panels. I have had a lot of feedback from teams who did the same with the same results. Adjust all four spring perch offsets to change the cross weight. Thanks. Race Car Street Stock Set Up help manual book. Download Setup The Antis These Bilstein stock mount shocks and struts provide high-level traction and precise handling, as well as safety for your powerful sport suspension. Click. That is the essence of shock technology related to handling influences. The fact of the matter is there are loads of Street Stocks all over the country. and we run asphalt 1/4 and 1/3. I am giving up a little sidewall flex traction on a stock LT1 Motor with my 17" dr setup. The iRacing , NASCAR hall of Fame driver Tony Stewart will make his first start since 2016 in the Xfinity race at Indianapolis Motor Speedway on July , Coming off of a very successful 2019 racing season, Billy Pauch Jr. only has one regret. . Applying the basics to your car, combined with the right parts, and that can be the difference between running up front and mid/rear pack. Currently located in Monterey, TN. For the Big Bar, Soft Spring setups, teams often introduce Pro-dive into the left front suspension to encourage rapid dive on entry to get the left front down quickly. Car went anywhere he wanted and was quick time, won the trophy dash, heat race and main. Car is very well built. A forum community dedicated to 1st generation Chevy Camaros owners and enthusiasts. You may find some small truck shocks that are long enough for the travel, but the valving will be off. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. We ran the car at Atwood, Tn, US. 50 , 60 , 75 series 15 inch or 14 inch. Traction Bars. There are a lot of things you can do to improve handling. Car is very well built. Once you have evaluated all of the above and feel fairly confident that the car is set up correctly, you should then work to tune the transitions into and off of the corners with the shocks. Street Stock Bodies Street Stock Bumper Covers Street Stock Bumpers Street Stock Deck Lid Panels Street Stock Doors Street Stock Fenders Street Stock Hoods Street Stock Interior Kits Street Stock Noses I also prefer manual brakes. So, here is, in order of logic and importance, a list of setup parameters we need to address to make our cars fast and consistent. Try to understand how aero downforce is created and then configure your car so that you take advantage of every area where you could produce more downforce. R/F 1.5 DEGREES POS CASTER REAR LEAFS LR 200LB. Eliminate most of your bumpsteer and Ackermann and install the correct steering ratio for your track that would suite the driver. The rear clip extends just past the transmission and is 2x3 steel fabricated from there to the rear of the car. Rear Geometry It does not say anywhere I can see that you have to run a solid axel get a 74-82 Vette and take advantage of the IRS on the dirt, On an asphalt track like that IRS probably wouldn't buy you anything anyways. To atone for abandoning this post, I found some old pics of the car after it was finished and had been raced a while: GPI SS2; EE E2 catch can; SP 1 7/8" LT Headers w/ hfc; FM AT 3" cat-back; CAI Cold Air Intake; AEM Wideband, 5th Gen Camaro SS LS LT General Discussions, Camaro V8 LS3 / L99 Engine, Exhaust, and Bolt-Ons, Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com, I'm not sure if I'll buy a 5th Gen. Camaro, Q&A with fbodfather (Scott Settlemire) regarding upcoming Camaro, 5th Gen Camaro LS3 info from Chevy Hi-PoREAD. Watch. So, there is a limit to how much you can get away with and still have a decent corner entry. Loss of efficiency can rob power from the drivetrain due to the generation of vibrations and harmonics that are also damaging to the bearings. Although there are many different kinds of cars racing in these classes, and the suspension configurations vary greatly, the goal is the same. Ready to race! car was very stable. Setup Balance Book; About Us; Contact Us; Street Stock Setup Manual. Track tested, developed,and proven! John tells us more. The most weight should be on the weaker lt. ft. to allow for easy compression of a stronger rt. The amount of difference you need is directly influenced by the installed motion ratio of the spring and the spring rate. Come check out the street stock ive been putting together. Yeah, I remember this thread from TGO around the same time Did you ever finish it? What works here may not work for you and your car. Disconnect the sway bar and zero (unload) it. will make adjustments easy with a 3" on the left! The steering system in your car must be evaluated and any negative characteristics must be eliminated. We run on street tires and can not move suspension mounts (viasably. The components that locate the rear end must be evaluated and set correctly. The effect is huge. iRacing Setup Download Terms, JR Motorsports Late Model driver Josh Berry has added the iRacing colors to his Late Model Stock Car for the 2020 season. 8. A tight condition is the number one complaint from drivers. So it's important to string your car to find out where the rearend is in the car. A very soft spring would need more compression rate and less rebound rate, whereas a stiff spring would need a lot of rebound rate and much less compression rate. Another way to gain bite. The floater needs rear steer to help turn . Come join the discussion about performance, builds, restoration, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, reviews, and more! Although there are (nearly) as many different variations on Street Stock rules as there are oval race tracks, the common thread is the use of an older American street car as the basis of the Street Stock race car. We will be racing in the "Street Stock" class. If all of these issues are evaluated and corrected, then you can move on. Antisquat is detrimental to corner entry. Pure stock, street stock, or mini-stock Bilstein AK Series shocks and struts have what you need for the best handling, most responsive and most stable design possible for your application. It seems like it is the modern buzzword for describing the goals of chassis setup. Only at teamsimkins.com. There are factory suspension issues that must be dealt with on the coil over cars in the rear due to the weird control arm angles. Once the setup has been balanced and the shocks are decided upon, we need to evaluate the turn-entry characteristics and the fact that brake bias is a very important influence at this segment of the track. Cage is very sturdy and rear frame has been plated. Explore. 1 being the most important. $ 235.00. First Generation Camaro Info and Tech - 1967-1969, The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo, http://www.pozziracing.com/second_gen_camaro_tall_bal.htm, http://www.pozziracing.com/tubular_upper_arms.htm, http://www.pro-touring.com/showthread.php?73352-2nd-Gen-camaro-suspension-help, http://www.pro-touring.com/showthread.php?4592-Roll-Center-design-theory, http://pozziracing.com/second_gen_camaro_tall_bal.htm, 67131821_160014455157704_391264163386621952_n.jpg, VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. The dynamics of the moment center and the effects of camber change have been explained before. afcos web site has leaf spring installation tips.i ran camaros and what i did was raise the front eye 3/4 and lower the rear 3/4''.a flatter spring has less rear steer and should have more anti squat.2'' lowering blocks is the most i ran,make some heavy duty ones yourself .i broke several that i bought.check the toe out in the rear end houseing, Dirt Street Stock. 79 Camaro street stock. 6-12 degrees if you can get it! Good luck. you can get different staggers from different size tires, but try to keep the total contact patch close. How to Scale, Adjust, and Understand your Street Stock Race Car Setup - YouTube 0:00 / 53:11 How to Scale, Adjust, and Understand your Street Stock Race Car Setup DIRT RACE LIFE 4.67K. Antisquat results from the third link trying to straighten out, or become more horizontal as the car accelerates and the rear end desires to rotate. A slight amount of rear steer to the left has been shown to help provide more traction at the rear and bite off the corners where it is needed. The very first step in the process of preparing for the new season is to consider all performance-related items and how they worked last season. Alignment issues are defined as: A. rearend alignment, B. contact patch alignment, C. driveshaft to pinion/transmission alignment, and D. engine alignment. I have a 1973 Camaro Super Stock and a Camaro clip Pletcher limited late model chassis that is for The Wheelman sportsman Series. This will help in turning left while rolled over! Very strong to 6900 RPM. WTB: Camaro Enthusiast Magazine - 1993 vol 10 MAY/JUNE. The rear is highlighted by large format taillight and turn signal combination lamps. "Wheel spacers are a must with these cars because of the excessive amounts of camber you run on the right front," John tells us. In addition, the leaf spring suspension is more forgiving on chassis set-up errors. These are the general rules unless you are trying to "tie down" a corner. John sheds some light on the differences. I'm a newb to Camaros and this forum, but not to wrenching and bulletin boards in general. In situations where the exit portion of the track provides less traction and/or the corner is more flat, we might need to develop more rear traction upon acceleration. We ran the G body at the old Flemington Speedway in NJ from 93-97 with great success in the street stock division. Cage is very sturdy and rear frame has been plated. We must develop ways to create more rear traction on acceleration only. "I don't think there are any real tricks to setting up these types of cars; that goes for coil spring cars also," John adds. 1967-1969 Camaro StreetGRIP Lowering Coil Springs - Dual Rate - Pair. Front Bumper Install Kit $ 19.95 Add to Quote. Do not seek aero downforce at the expense of aero drag increase. Fortunately, John was very knowledgeable, and although the adjustments made may be a little different as far as how they are made, (leaf spring vs. coil springs) the desired results are the same. Hey guys. I don't get too many reports of continual, repeated wins and successes. ", Applying the basics to your car, combined with the right parts, and that can be the difference between running up front and mid/rear pack, On the scales, leaf spring cars are a little different than coil spring cars. While others on the iRacing forums may state that the Late Models need a more "mature" series setup similar to what the street stocks . going in and quick rebounding of lr. Chevrolet Camaro Individual Body Components $ 44.00 - $ 237.00 Add to Quote. We hacked out the steering column and fabbed up a bracket with a heim that comes off of the dash bar of the cage to support the steering shaft. The settings, including the moment center location, really do dictate how all of the other parts and pieces of setup will work. 10. sj_valley_dave wrote on 05/01/09 at 12:12pm: I spoke with Dave24 after last weekend, he dropped the fronts down to 700 LF and 800 RF and got the cross down to 45.8%, pulled the bolt out and floated the RR spring. LOL. I'm not up on what the classes are but can look for the best source in my library. The new body shell features a fastback roofline with built-in rear spoiler, traditional V-nose and grille with perched headlights. That troubles me. Plan your shock layout by comparing the stiffness of one to the other corners and to the spring stiffness at the corner you are trying to control. where can i get info on the set ups for a metric chassis short track dirt car, Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information. Everyone wants to win, and that starts with a solid setup. That will add another 1200.00 to bill not including installation. "Leaf spring cars usually don't need the amount of crossweight or wedge that a coil spring car requires52 to 55 percent is a great starting point. Welcome, Guest. Note the cross weight. As the rear end rotates on acceleration, the left wheel moves rearward more so than the right wheel, creating a slight amount of rear steer to the left. The bottom line is that at mid-turn, each end will want to roll to its own degree of angle. That will put you around 550whp with great street manners. I started this thread and some other threads on other sites. Not sure if you could tune around that. Setup for asphalt, Roseburg rules. Brake bias influence can be easily determined by entering the corner with medium to heavy braking first and then entering with light braking to see if there is a difference. how did it do?My daughter is running a 3rd gen also this year, did you have any issues? The stage 1 219 to 223 range cams still work with the stock converter. Fresh with only 3 nights on bearings, rings, heads (n . The engine should always be aligned perpendicular to the rearend and/or parallel to the centerline of the car. Yes, I get inquiries about how to apply the BBSS setups to both of these types of cars. I'm not saying this is not important to some degree, but on short tracks I would stress that aero downforce is over-rated in most cases. My Dad was the outlaw local legend with 2nd gen camaros. Just add gas! What I hear I feel is representative, although those who dive head first into the BBSS mix not because of a perceived and measured expectation of success but because of the "see monkey, do monkey" attitude, will never share what they are doing. It has been found that the misalignment of your tires/wheels presents serious drawbacks to a finely tuned chassis and setup. Make sure your car is bind-free, the upper and lower arms move freely. The setup we choose needs to be arranged so that the dynamics are balanced between the front and the rear suspensions. A shock package of straight valve shocks has always worked for us! If it is too far to one side, then changes to the brake master cylinder sizes and/or the pad compounds might need to be made in order to maintain a centered-bias adjuster. Shocks This force is resisted by the ball joints and control amrs. Has headers and exhaust pipe. Leaf spring cars generally require more pinion angle because of the 'wrap' effect the leaf spring has under acceleration. A three link with panhard bar using the stock lower mounts works fine. The dual-rate spring will allow the vehicle to transition small road irregularities via a soft spring rate. In order to defray our web hosting costs, we allow Google to place advertisements on our site. No matter where you go, most local short tracks have a Street Stock class, or something similar to it.
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