Sad to hear that your Dad didnt tell you much about his missions. The Republic of Vietnam lost 1,018 aircraft and helicopters from January 1964 to September 1973. Had the great fortune of knowing 2 Navy POWs who were at the Hanoi Hilton one of which my wife served with in the Navy. A second missile had been fired and aimed precisely where our aircraft would have been had we dived straight ahead to avoid the first missile. Scotty then took control of the airplane as we proceeded to follow our leader along the preplanned route. . 31 DEC 71. I will be reading your story to my young ones tonight. It was great to learn about your time before FTL/FDX. The eight-engine bomber was brought down by a North Vietnamese surface-to-air missile. But, I stuck to my story answering the same question in the same way each time. I went down to about 125 in the winter of 1968. Smoke would be pouring out of their engines. Charge of the Light Brigade. The first thing I looked at was the horizon and I could almost hear the words of The Vanquished as if they were spoken to me. 9 of the losses were parked aircraft struck by rockets. Site content may be used for any purpose without explicit permission unless otherwise specified. But, knowing this might be my only chance to talk before the fun and games began anew, I concocted a mission scenario that I hoped would be accepted as truth. me 500s. 23 NOV 67. We attended the Colonels memorial service one week ago today. I could feel them loop a rope around my neck, then attach the rope to my wrists and again, in similar fashion, to my ankles. Page and Smith were with VF-21, and the aircraft modex was NE101. October 26, 1967: A-4E Skyhawk BuNo. I just received some additional email comments on my article and browsed through the older ones and saw yours. And we were just below that weight when we left Danang AB, RVN from runway 17L on the 22ndof November 1966. But I dont think they fixed it right. At Tulsa TRACON, I would have lumped him in with any group you could think of that wouldnt give a damn about anyonehow wrong that lumping would have been. Pilots would be hollering for this and for thatand there was NOTHING I could do. When the Vietnam War ended in 1973, Mohawk losses were: one shot down by a MiG, one destroyed by mortar fire, 27 lost to ground fire and 36 destroyed in operational accidents. (USAF) Date of report (1971-07-23). How did the Vietnam shot down the B-52? "Kos" and "Daily Kos" are registered trademarks of Kos Media, LLC. You certainly are my Hero! Steve Snyder's masterful book, Shot Down, does justice to the adventures of his father, pilot Howard Snyder, and the crew of the B-17 plane Susan Ruth. Just as the original lead aircraft rolled back to a wings-level position a mile to our left and reacquired us visually, the SAM struck our F-4 too late to shout a warning. My hats off to those who served. Crash Location: Near Ap Bac, Chau Doc Province, South Vietnam. Thank You Sir for your service and sacrifice you gave to our Country! I wondered what good it did to tell us there were guns, MiGs and SAMs everywhere. I was a flight engineer in the Air Force and National Guard. The concept that Vietnamese people who had conquered most of SE Asia and fought off numerous invasions by Chinese dynasties for centuries would be cowed and exhausted by the haphazard application of US air power was the result of historical ignorance and superpower arrogance. I never made it back . The USAF also lost F-4C Phantom 64-0755. We were to be a flight of four F-4C Phantoms. 17 apr 1966: arab 511, an a-1h (buno 135398), lt (jg) william l. tromp, va-115, went down following a night attack on coastal targets, near approximately 1818'n, 10610'e. arab 506, his wingman,. To those who try to insert politics, I agree that it is in extremely poor taste to try to make this such a venue. By that point the airflow over the isoclinic horizontal stabilizer was sufficient to start the nose up. Knowing you were handled so badly by your bosses has to be a tough thing to take. I have four children- ages 34, 30, 11 and 8 and am Grandma to 3 ages 8, 8 & 5. Binh Duong Province. I served, served proudly, and shelter no regrets. for my family and I, is absolutely heartfelt and sincere. God-Speed to our brothers in arms, where ever they may be! With both my palms up and a telling expression on my face, Don Ward knew that was the end of the conversation. There were pictures in the Tulsa World of the damage one of the ejection seats did to a womans newly-remodeled bathroom. Jeffrey Ethell and Alfred Price wrote a great book about this day called "One Day in a Long War, May 10, 1972, Air War, North Vietnam" that describes in detail events of that day. It was very kind of you to drive the 40 miles and spend the time to honor the memory of my brother, your fellow employee at Flying Tigers and FedEx. North Vietnam, pre-1975: Killing of Two American Pilots Shot Down Over North Vietnam IIR Casualty files | William A. Ott. 17, 1965, Commander Lou Page (pilot) and Lieutenant JC Smith were flying F-4B bureau number (buno) 150646 not 151488 as sometimes reported. I found out what its like to be a zoo animal except nobody threw me any peanuts. B/2/20 ARA #63-08597 A/C was shot down and after it hit exploded into flames. Nose wheel liftoff speed was calculated to be over 170 knots and liftoff at nearly 200 knots or 230 mph! We can only hope that the current and subsequent generations will take J.S. He still had the baleful look of an owl about to gobble a mouse. No better tribute to a warrior and man then to be remembered by his fellow warriors 50+ years later. My ungraceful arrival didnt raise much dust. Gary, this was like Vietnam all over again!. At this moment, I felt a great calm envelope me. Its Memorial Day, 2020. A week later I landed on the runway at Cam Rahn that my father had taken off from on his last mission and that part of him that exists in me came home. My father was lost in 64-0771 out of Cam Rahn 9/3/66. He said hes sorry I feel that way. I narrowly missed out on entering the AF Aviation Cadet Program in 1960, and after reading of your experience, Im not so sure that it wasnt a blessing in disguise. Scottys arms seemed to be at his sides and head slumped forward. From the refueling track exit over northern Thailand, our route took us over northern Laos and into North Vietnam. In early April, combat flight operations began from detachments at Binh Thuy and Vung Tau. lost 26 planes (written off) and 9 pilots (killed in combat) top scorer Yevgenij Pepeljayev with 109 mission, 38 dogfights and 19 shot down planes (15 kills are confirmed by american sources) 303. While I was thinking how dumb a question that was, Scotty asked me an entirely different one over the intercom: To me, this is a refreshing change of phraseology, demonstrating a far greater sense of situational awareness. Dulles International Needs a name change. No one shot at him. 1LT ALDRICH ROBERT HENRY BNR 12/27/1971154013 HMM-165 WO1 ALEXANDER BARRY KENNETH KIA 09/22/196968-513/68-23 71 AHC CPT ALEXANDER DAVID LEE KIA 02/06/197170-20 67-18493178 ASHC The pilot Lieutenant J. M. Krommenhoek is Missing in Action. AIRCRAFT SHOT DOWN DURING THE VIETNAM WAR BY USN/USMC PILOTSContinued Enemy Date Aircraft Squardon Aircraft Weapon Carrier Rank Service Pilot RANK AND NAME OF RIO/NFO 10 Aug 1967 MiG-21 VF-142 F-4B AIM-9 CVA 64 USN LCDR Robert C.Davis LCDR Gayle O.Elie 26 Oct 1967 MiG-21 VF-143 F-4B AIM-7 CVA 64 USN LTJG Robert P. Hickey, Jr. LTJG Jeremy G.Morris A MiG-21 of the VPAF which became the primary fighter-interceptor against USAF and USN aircraft. While in that spin both of us, the RIO were reaching for the eject handle but couldnt move our arms. I yelled on the intercom, Deep six check! So Scotty did the same check with a roll to the right with the same result. Elizabeth Hartsook, Stuart Slade. He didnt. They fixed it. Because the Director of Operations (DO) was leading a flight-of-four on MiG Cap hoping to shoot down a MiG. Lost contact with you shortly after you were so kind to make comments at my FedEx retirement party. Iwo Jima. Of those servicepeople, 2,382 were killed while serving aboard UH-1 Iroquois, better known as the ubiquitous "Huey." At the 480th Tactical Fighter Squadron, Danang AB, RVN, four two-man crews were hand-picked to deliver the lethal ordnance onto both targets selected by the Joint Chiefs of Staff (JCS). Now, the frenzied noise was deafening. Burning American aircraft at Bien Hoa Air Base in 1965. Cheers! So glad that you made it back in one piece, and were able to continue flying. We accomplished the weapons checklist just as we entered enemy territory: Centerline station, Bombs ripple, Intervalometer set, Master Arm. Im horrified to know how divided our country was in the late 60s/early 70s, and people like you did your duty, for all of us. You should be ashamed of yourself! Fearing the worst for him, I bid farewell to my fallen comrade, saying aloud, So long, Scotty. With only 300 feet to go, I prepared for my parachute landing. In that instant, I realized how I would die; they were going to slice my head off. I remember the days when my dad flew Young Tiger over there. I looked back to my right. I was too busy inside the cockpit to see it happen but the other two Phantoms banked away sharply to assume the proper lateral spacing. I enjoyed your write up though I could see you squirming in your seat as it was unfolding. Messrs. Crecca and Wilson were asked by their nation to serve. Never regretted. The baro switch was supposed to open my chute at 10,000 ft. Hayden Lockhart was the first Air Force pilot to fall into North Vietnamese hands. Vietnam will eventually strive throughout S.E. I was concentrating on Scotty and my eyes were focused only on him. And they did so with knives having little concept or knowledge of zippers, snaps or the technical difficulties associated with releasing parachute risers. The 366th TFW Gunfighters consisted of three squadrons; 389th, 390th and the 480th. Pavlovs Dog reaction to his Cmon Back, Chief, I got em spotted. (Im a Sioux Indian, Born on a Dakota Rez.) 1:00 Jan. 6 will mark 50 years since former Newburgh resident Dave Middleton was shot down in Vietnam while piloting a Loach helicopter on a mission to which he wasn't originally assigned.. I will be forever grateful to all who flew and supported LBII and to President Richard M. Nixon for having the fortitude to send the mighty BUFFs north. Many thanks for contributing this excellent memoirhope to read more of your writings in future, and wishing you many more years of life aloft: youve sure earned them! Im thinking, How does anybody know how their INS is doing when they cant see the ground? We were at 25,000 feet above a solid, 10,000-foot undercast. Osprey 2001, No. In this MGTOW case, you had to have the stick in your lap before attaining 140 knots. What was the name of the plane that was shot down in Vietnam? At this moment the twin J-79 afterburners are briefly licking at the runway with two, huge, yellow-orange flames. I cried like a baby. The former fighter pilot, who was shot down over Vietnam in 1967, went on: Only loss: 51-15565 (432d Tactical Reconnaissance Wing) which crashed in Thailand 28 December 1966, both crewmen survived, Only loss: 63-13102 (5th SOS, 14th SOW) shot down 14 August 1969 near Bien Hoa, killing 1/Lt Roger Brown, Final loss: 600282 (38th ARRS) crashed Cam Ranh Bay 7 August 1969, crew rescued, Last losses: four CH-53s (68-10925, 10926, 10927, 701627, all from, C-1A 146016 (Composite Squadron Five VC-5), operational loss (non-combat) 8 August 1967, 3 passengers and 2 crew rescued, Final loss: C-1A 146054 (Carrier Air Wing 11, USS. Notes. All I was aware of was a short, sharp ringing sound and my white, silk parachute billowing above me. Maximum allowable gross takeoff weight in an F-4C was 58,000 lbs. He was crying. At least 68 people were killed Sunday when an aircraft went down near the city of Pokhara in central Nepal, a government official said, the country's deadliest plane crash in more than 30 years. Looking down toward my feet, I could see dozens of hands. I dont know that back in 1973 I was all that appreciative of the Scotty Wilsons, or even the cigarette-smoking Iwo Jima Marines, but as Ive grown and aged during the past 47 years, I cant help but feel enormous gratitude, and sorrow, for those men and women who, but for the grace of God and President Nixon, went where I didnt. Our flight should never have been going into the target. Thus ended my first day as a POW in North Vietnam. Mills words to heart whenever necessary. Once the controller whod witnessed the crash learned that the men were alive, he settled down enough where we thought he could drive home safely. Dak Harney Peak who did far less than Dulles. I think of you often and was looking forward to seeing you again. [12], List of United States aerial victories of the Vietnam War, "US Air-to-Air Losses in the Vietnam War", "How North Vietnam claimed more aces than it really had", https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_Vietnam_War_flying_aces&oldid=1101889530, Short description is different from Wikidata, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License 3.0, This page was last edited on 2 August 2022, at 09:45. His unit was flying in support of South Vietnamese troops fighting in Laos. Ive raised all my children to, regardless of whether one agrees with our government or not, we as U.S. citizens always owe a debt of gratitude to those who signed that contract to protect our lives with risk to theirs. I know exactly how you feel about combat decisions driven by hubris. I saw an F-4 fly low into Firebase Bastogne in January 1969 and pickle a few rounds on the guys that were over-running our base. Two years ago I walked through the front door of Hoa Lo. I am forever beholding to you on so many fronts. First loss: 1964, final loss: 1967. Its guys like you who Ive tried to be like when it became my turn to sit in the left seat. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling that thinks nothing is worth war is much worse. What? Day after day intel would ask us to listen up for Buick 4, or Chevy 4, or whoever Number 4 who had been shot down while lead worked on getting his Mig. What could I possibly say to the President of the United States that he hadnt already heard 334 times before? But then, the blood began to run down from the breaks in the skin on my head and into my eyes. Misty FACs operated from 15 June 1967 to 19 May 1970. If you are wondering how this is possible, I will reveal at the outset that it is not possible. The pain was unbearable except that I had to bear it whether I wanted to or not. I never came face-to-face with either asshole but I emailed the flight lead recently and told him off that he was incompetent, got Scotty Wilson killed, cost the USAF an F-4, caused my Fathers premature death and was responsible for unimaginable hardships for Scottys widow and daughter not to mention my 6+ years in prison. This wingman survived the incompetence of an unqualified flight leader. I told him to head SE so I could spot him out of the circular traffic jam. Thanks for telling our story Joe. After liftoff, caution must be exercised to avoid over-rotation. Do you know how good a F4 sounds from the darn dirt ?!? It is hard to imagine just surviving. All my attention had been focused on escape and I had inadvertently bypassed the opportunity to use my emergency radio to make a distress, Mayday call. I am most grateful for the hero status conferred upon me by the predominance of commenters. So, with that, you have to question the command and leadership, not the foot soldier. God bless. I fell into a restless, nightmarish and shivering cold sleep. SSGT Bobby Sacina, JoeThank you fot sharing your experience..We have had a few talks over beers in the past but you never told this storyYou are an American hero!! Tried to cross-service in 64 or 65 to Army for WO pilot program, but because I was already in the military (being in a critical COMSEC AFSC probably didnt help), I was offered no guarantee of flight training, so I withdrew the request otherwise, I may have been one of your grateful students, or still buried in some shallow grave. The USMC focused almost entirely on close air support (yards, not miles) of their ground units and on point defense over an amphibious landing. The ONLY bright spot is that so much sacrifice led to a new generation of officers who learned that the half-assed politically-correct application of military power accomplished nothing. I live on Easy Street. Ronald Fogleman was shot down in the I Corps area 200 miles (320 km) north of Bien Hoa while flying aircraft 56-3245. Black Hills just changed So. There will always be those who dont get it. LTJG Hartman & LT Clinton B. . I believe I heard, or read, that the F-4 itself crashed in a small horse pasture. Your story sheds much light on what his experiences must have been like. In 1973, American POWs finally came home. It was the determination of President Richard M. Nixon to mount Operation Linebacker II, sending B-52s to attack the capital city of Hanoi and the port city of Haiphong, forcing the communists back to the peace conference in Paris that resulted in the end of the Vietnam War and the release of the prisoners-of-war. The 1850 John Stuart Mill quote and your comment that you posted above is powerful and right on. Secondly, everybody else all the other strike flights, 15 of them, one after the other were calling, Outbound for weather meaning the target area was socked in and it would be just plain stupid to drop into the clouds where it would be hard to locate the target and easy to get nailed by a SAM (Surface-to-Air Missile). First loss: 560937 (476th TFS, 497th TFW) shot down by enemy ground fire during CAS mission near Tri Dao, Vietnam, on 29 June 1965, pilot Capt. Million-dollar wound some would call it through the knee, with the bones barely nicked. Instead, dummy missiles had been placed at the site as a "flak trap.". My father was at Danang in 67/68. But I promise if youll just give me another one, Ill take much better care of it. He squeezed my hand so hard I thought he was going to break all the bones in it as he said with great gusto, I want you in one!, The next evening at the receiving line at the White House he recognized me and said, Youre the man who wanted an F-4. I said I was and he said, Youve got it!. The USN was the only service which had been forced to learn power projection as the fundamental war-fighting technique. As I learned about him, I remember more of him lecturing rather than delivering the news. Here, then, is our take on the five deadliest fighter pilots in U.S. military history: Major Richard Bong, Army Air Forces Hometown: Superior, Wisconsin Aka: Bing-Bang Years of Service: 1941 to. via Vietnamese News Agency Photo via Bert Hester, www.preservingourhistory.com By Rebecca Grant AIR FORCE Magazine / February 2013 75 Fogleman became the only Super Sabre pilot ever rescued by riding out on a Cobra helicopter. SMS D.R. all i can do is thank you so much for allowing common people like myself to be inspired . My brother got spit on when he landed in Atlanta on his way home. Of those servicepeople, 2,382 were killed while serving aboard UH-1 Iroquois, better known as the ubiquitous "Huey." Contents [ hide] It was moving and changing shape ever so slowly. How do you look in the mirror? A year and a half after his plane was shot down over North Vietnam, Porter sat in a filthy cell shared with another American prisoner of war, and learned that he was supposedly dead. Its a real shame but they ruined a perfectly good pair of nearly new, highly-polished USAF flying boots with zippers; they cut right through the damn zippers! Lt Cmdr Frederick P Crosby's plane crashed in a pond during the Vietnam War in 1965 (inset). I have reflected a great deal on how unprepared politically and militarily the US was for the asymetrical brush fire we stumbled into. He was the last fighter pilot to become an ace in a day, shooting down five Indian Hawker . Actually, it being a slow weekend day, I was on a break and eating breakfast with a few other controllers at a restaurant not far from the airport when Perky01 or 02 reported that they were going to have to bail out. Some were grabbing and pulling at my anti-g suit, flight suit and boots. Graham MIA, Final loss: 670111 (474th TFW) mid-air collision over Cambodia, 16 June 1973, both crewmen rescued, First loss: 515287 to unknown cause 19 June 1965, 51-0071 (33d ARRS) shot down by AAA 14 March 1966, two crewmen killed, Only loss: KB-50J 48-0065 (421st Air Refueling Squadron Detachment) at, Two crashes in 1968, one 1969, all operational (non-combat), First loss: YQU-22A 68-10531 (554th RS, 553d RW) crashed due to engine failure on 11 June 1969, Final loss: QU-22B 70-1546 (554th RS) on 25 August 1972, pilot killed, First loss: 64-17969 (Det OL-8, 9th Strategic Reconnaissance Wing) suffered engine failure over Thailand on 10 May 1970, both crewmen ejected safely, Final loss: 64-17978 (Det OL-KA, 9th SRW) crashed on landing at, Only loss: 566690 (349th Strategic Reconnaissance Squadron 100th SRW) which crashed on 8 October 1966 near Bien Hoa, SVN, Maj. Leo J Stewart ejected and was rescued. Get it? In fact all those who kept us in the air were. The USAF sustained approximately 0.4 losses per 1,000 sorties during the conflict, which compared favorably with a 2.0 rate in Korea and a 9.7 figure during World War II. Just as we were positioning ourselves for the right-hand turn at Bravo, the lead aircraft unexpectedly turned to the left. Just a wild guess but you just enjoy your freedoms while you let others do the fighting and take the risks. Of course, things were beginning to wind down in Viet Nam by this time, but it was still mega impressive to see the F-4s light em up and blast off the runway like angry rocket-powered birds of prey searching for their next meal! Asia [http://www.dpaa.mil/Resources/Fact-Sheets/Article-View/Article/569613/progress-in-vietnam/]. The villagers made short work of removing everything except my T-Shirt and skivvies. Among fixed-wing aircraft, more F-4 Phantoms were lost than any other type in service with any nation. Scotty yelled, GET OUT! With the OUT still echoing in my ears there was a BOOM!, then the air noise of the jettisoned canopy. Thanks for your service, Sir. Thank you Mr. Meadows, And we who flew the mighty Phantoms were in your debt,too. Despite my state of lingering shock, my reaction to his command was to pop the Rat and restart. I taught math, physics, automotive theory and practice, and classical music in the Hanoi Hilton. I served as Navy, lost friends both in country and after returning home with one still carried as MIA Army Helicopter Pilot. I was flat on my back. The MiG-21 N. 4324 of the Vietnam People's Air Force. The terror I felt just moments before vanished. Your comments and wisdom are much appreciated. North Vietnam, pre-1975: Killing of Two American Pilots Shot Down Over North Vietnam. I was too young for Nam, but spent 20 years in the Navy under the water. It was great to get back to the sweltering heat, I gotta tell ya. Lockhart is still alive, although. 3 Enclosures included: COMUSMACV MSG DTD 050023Z and Evaluations. Manacles were locked onto my wrists as well. Yeh, the F-4s wings dont come off even from a SAM induced Spin. I cannot express my admiration for you and others who went thru what you did. Public Servants who screw -up Big, Big time do not deserve such glorified recognition. In closing, I assert that Joe did not have the option you recommend. Id pulled the lower ejection handle and was away from my burning Phantom. Thank you, Mr. Crecca! The U.S records showing 5,607 helicopter losses[2]. Hi, Joe. We beneficiaries need to know the experiences, sufferings, challenges, life and death, victories and miraculous acts of God in the lives of our fellow countrymen in war, especially from their own voice and pen before the stories are gone. A total of 17 four-ship flights were to hit a vast complex of oil and munitions storage and NVN troops. Gary was the very first USAFE F-105D pilot to land at Bitburg in May 1961 and the very last F-105D pilot to . Reading yours was dismal, doom and gloom. Our detachment was working on WWll vintage C-47s, but we got to observe AC-130 gunships and the F-4 unit known as Wolf-Pack in action. Jim witnessed the other pilot CW2 Richard Bauman and crew chief Craig Dix being captured. Lasted almost two weeks on the island before a Japanese sniper gave him his ticket off the island. Just read this story about your mission over North Vietnam. Very sadly, according to the DOD, 1,616 of our brothers are still missing in S.E. [5], Claimed by VPAF: 154 MiG aircraft lost through all causes, including 131 in air combat (includes 63 MiG-17s, 8 MiG-19s and 60 MiG-21s)[21][22]. God Bless America; God Bless the USAF; God Bless the Pilots and God Bless the POWs! I saw 3 aircraft in front of me, so I asked lead to flash his lights. At first it seemed to be right below me. Thank you for your sentiment. 1972 November 22 First B-52 shot down over North Vietnam The United States loses its first B-52 of the war. Richard Armstrong. I served from 1964-1968. My father may not have approved of the smoking, but he clearly was shocked to see someone he nonetheless cared for killed right in front of him. He called me to come back coming out of a Split S spin. He wasnt much of a story teller and I didnt think to ask him about his service until after he died. God Bless all who serve. Final loss: F-4D 66-8747 (432d TRW) on 29 June 1973. Then we switched roles and Scotty flew while I coordinated the rendezvous. Thanks for your story, Joe. When I was shot down I weighed 157 lbs. First loss: operational (non-combat), F-4C 64-0674 (45TH TFS, 15th TFW) which ran out of fuel after strike in SVN on 9 June 1965; first combat loss F-4C 64-0685 (45th TFS, 15th TFW) shot down Ta Chan, NW NVN on 20 June 1965. I was an Air Traffic Controller at the Tulsa TRACON (tower and radar approach control) in January of 1981 when one of the check flights did not end well. At the most fundamental level, we failed to evaluate the reasons why Germany, Korea, Vietnam and others were divided at the end of WWII. The explosion was ear-splitting and seemed to go on and on. There was a terrifyingly loud and long explosion followed by staccato metal-to-metal sounds, probably of the J-79 turbine and compressor blades departing for parts unknown. Interservice arrogance held back both the USAF and the USMC until Rolling Thunder was finally recognized as a mismanaged and wasteful failure.
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