Kerdi Board is another choice with a decently long history and loyal customer base. Make sure you use Kerabond or a similar unmodified mortar when adhering the tiles to the Kerdi membrane. No gypsum levelers ! Calculate all your membrane requirements for your project. Press KERDI fully into the bond coat. over expansion joints or construction joints. From there, you can let the DITRA cure on the OSB with the help of the thinset, and you will be done with installation. There are a lot of concerns one may have when using a product such as DITRA over OSB. 3 Can I use unmodified thinset on plywood? Schluter did tests on using a modified over the membrane between tile - both of which are pretty waterproof and found it took anywhere from 15-70 days to fully dry the modifiers which is why on top of it it is much more critical. 4. We can give it a more generic title any time you'd like. Ditra allows modified thinset to lay the Ditra down, but requires unmodified TS when setting the tile on the Ditra. Uncoupling and waterproofing membrane: Schluter-DITRA, 4. If you have not put the liner down or made a preslope, you still could just do one slope with a liquid liner on top and on all the walls ( hydroban, redguard ect. ) Further, DITRA performs all these functions while still providing adequate support/load distribution for the tile covering. ..your opinion on shimming up the shorter pre pitch sticks?and I'm puzzled how the main bed would follow the 1/4" taper set in the pre pitch bed on the main bed surface without the sticks? Once it starts to get stiff, it will go off quickly. Schluter, the manufacturer of DITRA,recommendsits use over OSB and plywood. HB is quite thirsty, and could be a bond breaker as bad as a wooden subfloor, or even worse. Excellence is its own reward! If you intend to install another type of floor, such as hardwood, there is no need for DITRA. The plan is to redguard over all of it. Thanks for the heads up Jim and Robert! Don't fear the mud. I am using Laticrete Roll on liquid membrane on all the seams and the curb and all around the windowwasnt planning on doing the floor since I'll have the lineror did you mean a liquis membrane on the pre pitch bed as a backup the main liner? The only time I've used Ultraflex with a Schluter product is when I adhere Ditra to a plywood substrate, if you put Ditra over a SLC you need to go back to unmodified. For tile installations using the thin-bed method, apply Schluter-SET, Schluter-ALL-SET, Schluter-FAST-SET, or unmodified thin-set mortar directly to the exposed KERDI surface and install the tiles, ensuring full coverage. Neither one absorbs moisture and both offer some interesting features (glow in the dark! Prefabricated sloped shower tray: Schluter-KERDI-SHOWER-LTS, 3. say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." Either will work to anchor the foam pan. Which Thinset for Kerdi? Cover the joints with KERDI-FLEX. We just read the article in Fine Homebuilding No. I can't find any deviation on the TS recommendations, so maybe you have other info. (Explained), Can You Use RedGard Over Plywood? I think cx is right. For all the substrates listed in this Handbook (e.g., gypsum board, cement backerboard, etc. Both (actually, all three) methods will produce a workable shower, if done properly. Step 4 Grab Your Trowel and Install the Modified Thinset. KERDI-BOARD can be installed both vertically and horizontally using the screws and washers in our hardware assortment. This allows the cement to properly hydrate, resulting in a strong, dense bond coat. Why is it so easy to peel it off the wall today? Is this going to be a mud job? A 1/4" x 3/16" (6 mm x 5 mm) V-notched trowel or the Schluter-KERDI-TROWEL is recommended.. How do I seal Schluter-KERDI to a bathtub? The material is equally suitable for creating level substrates in floor renovation projects e.g. Hello! Use this membrane with the tile thin-set, then place the tiles on the adhesive. Almost like a hydraulic cement. Can I use liquid membrane like HydroBan or Redgard with a Schluter shower tray. Thanks for the reply, I appreciate it. A-holes. It shouldnt be too thin or too thick. Danny if youre worried about sweating the fittings. look into pex and compression rings if codes permit in your local. Can you use green board for shower walls? Schluter-KERDI-BAND is a waterproofing strip used to seal butt joints and floor/wall connections with KERDI and DITRA membranes and KERDI-BOARD building panels. You can slightly lift one of the edges to check on the progress. Step 5 Install the DITRA Over the Thinset. Higher latex content is essential for bonding to plywood. I'll be sure to let everyone know if/when I find out the hard way! Some of the acrylic based ones are pretty maintenance free, too. Thanks again Robert. Please note that the JLC forums are now displayed read-only. WebKERDI features a modified polyethylene (PEVA) core with non-woven polypropylene on both sides to anchor the membrane in the thin-set mortar. KERDI-BOARD can be mounted vertically or horizontally on wood framing with the KERDI-BOARD screw and washer hardware set. Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile. While the detail images below demonstrate options for KERDI-DRAIN, please note that raising the bathroom floor is also possible with KERDI-LINE. However, Im using Kerdi membrane instead of Showerseal coating. Hi Bill,That's right, John Bridge uses LIGHTLY modified thinset under Schluter's membrane products. 2. Yes! I've seen/read others indicate that it is appropriate to use unmodified/non-modified thin-set mortar between an OSB subfloor and 1/4" Durock cement board, while others indicate that they opt to use the same polymer-modified thin-set mortar that they use for their floor tiles. Tile is installed over DITRA using the thin-bed method in such a way that the mortar becomes mechanically anchored in the square, cutback cavities of the matting. Not sure what controversy there is to installing Kerdi. Contact us: 888-472-4588 Can I install Kerdi membrane over Hardibacker? Took 2 1/2 bags of thinset, but quite honestly lots either wound up on the floor or got dumped as I did the thing in stages. http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=91369. KERDI was developed as a The bond strength will increase over the first week and month after installation Can ceramic tile, including porcelain tile, be set on Schluter-KERDI with latex-modified thin-set mortar? Point drain with integrated bonding flange. Glass tiles are unique products and may require special consideration. There is no reason to use both products although it can be easier to use the RedGuard in corners and niches without the build up you can get with kerdi. To ensure the floor is clean, wipe it with a wet sponge. However if installed on drywall it is only protecting one side. Any specific type/brand to look for? Because of the benefits mentioned above, DITRA is perfect for surfaces about to be tiled over. ), Schluter SET, ALL-SET, FAST-SET or an unmodified thin-set mortar is recommended. DITRA has a thickness of 1/8. Can Schluter Ditra be used on shower floor? Then hang the sheet. Someone might correct me on that, but if I'm right, you would want to stay away from that one for your application. However if installed on drywall it is only protecting one side. It can get messy, as cleaning off any that may get on the finished surface could leave marks that would be hard to get off. 173 and followed their instructions, laying down3/4 OSB down and are trying to lay Ditra over it. You can now lay the DITRA over the thinset. :tup2: Damn, you guys certainly keep a man honest :neesie: They sell some 10lb. Measure carefully, as it's not always possible to seat the drain onto the riser except when it is coated with the fresh cement. Did the article get this detail grotesquely wrong? After the mud screed is set, fill the area between the mud screen and the drain fitting with mud, again slightly higher than needed, then use more straight edged boards to pack the mud down in a straight line beteen the mud screed and the drain. But its pretty strong, which is why it is commonly used on floors. KERDI is ideal for use in tiled showers, bathtub surrounds, residential steam showers, and other tile applications in wet areas. specific product you want to buy. Calculate all your membrane requirements for your project. The substrate must be clean, even, and load bearing. If you were using a mud floor as your base, having the floor a little uneven wouldn't matter. Ditra can be installed over a variety of subfloors including concrete, plywood, OSB and radiant heated floors. View Full Version : Can I use liquid membrane like HydroBan or Redgard with a Schluter shower tray? Waterproofing strip: Schluter-KERDI-BAND, 5. ?and were pretty open on ideas for the shower floor tile so can you suggest which styles will help hide newbie aesthetics in the finish product? Thin-set mortar takes time to cure. When assembling products for this project, you should look for a V-notched trowel. PVA white glue, Acryl 60, weldwood, the list goes on and one.Any tile supplier will have something. How do I know if the thin-set mortar is modified or unmodified? This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google. ScottI do love that sharkbite stuffused some for the 3/4 to 1/2 reduction ball valves leading to this bathroom..its hard to trust but it aint leaked a dropa little too expensive though.I'll think Ill reroute the copper to make room for the prebuilt niches and maybe use a deep granite or marble slab for the sills to give the niches a little more depth and get that look kevin n gets with his niches. As far as bonding goes, no sweat. IOW, you have to be fast. or glitter, etc.). Some suggest marble is not recommended for showers. Wait 24 hours after the membrane (i.e., Schluter-KERDI-BAND and Schluter-KERDI) installation is complete to allow for the final set of the mortar and to ensure waterproof performance of the assembly at seams and connections before water testing. Schluter-Systems requires the use of Schluter SET , ALL-SET , FAST-SET, or an unmodified thin-set mortar meeting Can I use a premixed thin-set mortar to install Schluter-KERDI and tile in my shower? would tiles start falling off the wall !!) And, I am not against trying something new. If working with a wood subfloor, you can build up the rest of the subfloor by installing either a 5/8" or 3/4" plywood/OSB panel on top of the wood subfloor along with DITRA or another Schluter-Systems uncoupling membrane. It takes a little longer than the traditional mud shower bed and water-proofing methods, but it is worth it. Schluter-KERDI is a pliable sheet-applied waterproofing membrane and vapor-retarder designed for the direct application of tile. The Kerdi seems very well adhered to the plywood. That would be ideal for me right now. KERDI and KERDI-DS are pliable, sheet-applied, bonded waterproof membranes and vapor retarders with limited crack-bridging capabilities. RedGuard is not harder to adhere to. This includes dirt and dust. They can dimple if you put point pressure on it. Send us an email: , Using a Prefabricated Shower Tray and Ramp, 1. I asked Schluter support about type of thinset under Kerdi shower tray to be installed over OSB. Plus, get an extra 20% off with code GIFT20, Fine Homebuilding Issue #313 Online Highlights, The Fine Homebuilding Interview: James Metoyer, 10 Steps to Install Crown Molding on Cabinets, Choosing the Right Construction Tape for the Job, Expert insights on techniques and principles. This way any moisture that makes it past the grout can't cause any damage. Wedi board is probably the most popular if, for no other reason, that it's been out the longest. Manufacturers generally recommend that the deflection of the subfloor system be limited to no more than span/360 under total load. Thanks Kevin. Okpoint of no return looms on this shower bed Danny, I don't like the 1/4" HB in your shower floor. To allow for greater movement, the center section of the KERDI-FLEX can be tucked into the cavity of the expansion joint prior to bonding. Quite a few people on this site have used versabond. Its relatively thin. With KERDI-BOARD, you can build custom vanities, shelving units, bathtub surrounds, free-standing partition walls, kitchen islands, and so much more. There is never 'the answer' but 'an answer'. Can you tile over Kerdi membrane? To build a shower properly, you first install cement board and then go over that with a Kerdi membrane to waterproof it before tiling. First Kerdi can be installed on drywall or cement board. As I wind down my shower project, the wife aka boss are in grout mode. Wait 24 hours after the membrane (i.e., Schluter-KERDI-BAND and Schluter-KERDI) installation is complete to allow for the final set of the mortar and to ensure waterproof performance of the assembly at seams and connections before water testing. Thanks for the reply Robert. That can be mitigated by using DITRAs waterproofing capabilities. WebI asked Schluter support about type of thinset under Kerdi shower tray to be installed over OSB. This allows the cement to properly hydrate, resulting in Acrylic is one of the most durable materials used in the shower construction industry, and for good reason. :). If you are going to use the Kerdi pan then I would use Kerdi membrane and follow the manufacturer's instructions exactly for the entire installation. The type of bonding mortar used to apply KERDI must be suitable for the substrate and must penetrate and engage the membrane fleece What type of thin-set mortar should I use when installing ceramic and stone tile over Schluter-KERDI? About 1/4" off with a 6 ft. Level. If so, you haven't done anything wrong. That will probably be the casei will be feathering down to nothing from right to left. Once you get your pics to about 600 pixels high by 400 wide, they'll upload in a snap. The Kerdi system is installed using thin-set mortar. There are different types of OSB, from OSB1 to OSB3. Over a concrete subfloor use a bonded mortar bed of appropriate thickness to build up the rest of the bathroom floor. Thanks again for your advice Jim, I appreciate it. Hey Jim, one last question. Used unmodified as called for between ditra and tile. Best to get the 7/8" OSB to match. A.Sean Gerolimatos, technical services manager for Schluter Systems, responds: With a few exceptions, unmodified thinset mortar is required for setting ceramic and stone tile over Kerdi membranes (800/472-4588, www.schluter.com ), as well as for bonding overlapped seams and connections to Kerdi drains. Seems like a decent choice when no other is readily available. Makes things a lot easier. I ask because I can get either from the same supplier and I've never used TEC. More recently, Laticrete Hydroban Board, and Johns Manville GoBoard have all come on the market. Is there a product you would recommend? Since KERDI is impervious, it does not deprive the mortar of its moisture. All KERDI components and tiles must be installed using an unmodified thin-set mortar meeting ANSI A118. KERDI is ideal for use in tiled showers, bathtub surrounds, residential steam showers, and other tile applications in wet areas. Does unmodified thinset stick to plywood? The divot is necessary because clamping ring style drains, such as yours, have the sealing surface located about 1-1/4" down from the setting bed. Do I need an uncoupling membrane on plywood? I have two pieces of marble that will need to be cut to create a shower curb cap (2-42" pieces to join to fill a 60" curb). Please note that you need 48 hours for full cure on the Kerabond. from what I first gathered the problem was with grout cracking. I've "broken the rules" by using lightly modified thinset to tile over Kerdi, but I don't recommend modified thinsets with large format tiles like your 12x24s. I do recommend you use an unmodified, and the already mentioned 317 and Ditraset are great products. I'll recommend Mapei's Kerabond as a very good unmodified thinset too. Im thinking the epoxy route is the way to go. As an alternative to KERDISEAL- PS/-MV, KERDI-FIX or other suitable sealant can be used to seal pipe protrusions and protect moisturesensitive solid backing panels at the mixing valve. I need to run to lowes today anyways. Due to its thin perimeter height, the KERDI-SHOWER-TT is an ideal choice. Kerdi is a sheet-applied polyethylene waterproofing membrane and vapor retarder. I'm of the opinion now that I'll use what's best for the stick with the subfloor. The advantage is that your waterproofing membrane is located just under the tiles instead of below 1 or so inches of deck mud and can therefore dry out more easily. How are you going to handle the butt joints perpendicular to the joists of your new and old OSB? Schluter-KERDI-FLEX is a flexible polyethylene waterproofing strip used to seal movement joints over DITRA in specialty applications where large movements are expected, i.e. Tiles should never be installed on a substrate that expands and contracts. Will OSB Suck Moisture from the Mortar Used to Install DITRA? Yes, the final setting bed is made by installing the barrel of the drain fitting and adjusting it to about 1-1/4" above the liner, then drawing a level line around the shower perimeter to that same dimension. I should make that my tagline. The thickness of the tile assembly is minimized by using Ditra, Cut a section of Kerdi off the roll and dry fit it on the hardie. Thanks! Tile has been successfully installed for thousands of years by incorporating an uncoupling layer, or forgiving shear interface, within the tile assembly. Jim and Robert (and others) thanks so much for your help and advice. Can you install Kerdi board directly on studs? Not so good side to side. Finally getting ready to finish my shower project. We are going with a grey grout, either delorean gray or light pewter. Thinset is the wet base that you first trowel on the plywood to make the tile stick. Does Schluter-KERDI waterproofing membrane have a front/back to it? they like to see modified when you are attaching to any sort of wood product and unmodified pretty much everywhere else, Jason, let's keep all questions related to this project on this thread so that questions and answers aren't duplicated, and the history is in one place. KERDI is suitable for use in intermittent use steam showers. the Kerdi pan with the corner membranes. Silicone or sand caulk in the corners since its a change of plain. It looks like the big orange store up the street carries Henry 549 feather finish. Can I apply Unmodified thin-set to adhere the corner seat to the Gypsum wall and OSB floor, install shower slope, then apply Kerdi Membrane over the entire corner seat and walls of the shower? "I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul." That is where the DITRA uncoupling membrane comes in. Ensure the pieces are big enough to fit the entire OSB subfloor. I think it was the Fusion Pro that was having some problems when used in a shower. The other steps required for a successful installation are listed When discussing the steps of installing DITRA over OSB, we mentioned that you should mix up the thinset so that its not too thick or thin. Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. The last step is to steel trowel the mud to clean up any loose sand. In a perfect job, it will waterproof. Mark the slope or high point on the walls. Send us an email: , construction-most-common-waterproofing-mistakes, Using a Prefabricated Shower Tray and Ramp, SchluterKERDI was evaluated by ICC-ES - ESR-2467, Schluter-DITRA was evaluated by ICC-ES - ESR-2467, Schluter-KERDI is listed by ICC-ES - PMG-1204, Schluter-KERDI-DS is listed by ICC-ES - PMG-1204, Schluter-KERDI-DRAIN is listed by ICC-ES - PMG-1204, Schluter Systems holds a Los Angeles Research Report (LARR) for Kerdi - File M-100022, Schluter Systems holds a Los Angeles Research Report (LARR) for Kerdi-Drain - File M-100023, Sheet-appliedpolyethylene waterproofing membrane and vapor retarder, Eliminates water damage which can lead to mold and mildew, Features a modified polyethylene (PEVA) core with non-woven polypropyleneon both sides, Features an anchoring fleece on both sides to anchor the membrane in thin-set mortar, Ideal for waterproofing in conjunction with tiled surfaces on walls and floors, KERDI is 8-mil-thick and guarantees uniform thickness, The 6 7 (2-meter) wide roll covers wall area from floor to standard shower head height for fewer seams and a faster installation. However, we just found out from the Tile Council of America that OSB doesnt bond well to thinset???? It can still feel the effects of excess moisture exposure. If you continue to use this site we will assume that you are happy with it. Its a water-resistant membrane used for tiles and paver coverings. vBulletin v3.7.4, Copyright 2000-2023, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. The KERDI-SHOWER-T is offered in five sizes with perimeter heights ranging from 1-3/32" (28 mm) to 1-1/4" (32 mm). In jobsite conditions and over a long time, who knows. Do I need to prime plywood before tiling? "Did the article get this detail grotesquely wrong?". Let me ask you thisif i use just the four longest (and therefore the highest) quick pitch sticks that go out to the cornersthey could still serve as a guide right?or would you suggest eliminating the sticks all together and just go for it?.How long will this dry pack stay workable? I would not use a liquid membrane over a Kerdi tray. Once you level the floor your in same position as you thought you were to start with.
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